Curse

Biostem · Dec 01, 2007, 04:10 AM // 04:10

All of the skills the grant increased attack speed seem to have some pretty significant drawbacks. It seems one has to decide between maneuverability, damage, or survivability when using them. So far, I have found flail to be the most tolerable, but was wondering if anyone else had other suggestions. For instance, dervishes and rangers seem to have a few IAS skills w/ less drawbacks, but you would then need to invest points in beast mastery or wind prayers.

What is the common thought on this matter? Thanks.

Floski · Dec 01, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Frenzy + Rush

Biostem · Dec 01, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floski

Frenzy + Rush

But that's 2 skills... do you use rush to cancel frenzy as needed, to avoid the double damage?

The Meth · Dec 01, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Best for a PvE warrior would definitely be flail, the movement penalty isn't too big of a problem and if it is you can cancel it with another stance. The only IAS comparable to it is frenzy, but I highly recommend against it since even if you are experienced enough to use it when not under fire most other PvE players won't want to have it on your bar at all. The only time flail's downside comes into play is when enemies kite, you can count the number of PvE foes who do that on one hand.

Biostem · Dec 01, 2007, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Maybe it would help if I tell you folks what I've been using:

I open w/ enraging charge, having an attack skill queued up. As soon as I hit, I get 4 strikes of adrenaline, which is enough to trigger flail. If I need to move, I hit enraging charge again, and since it's another stance, it cancels out flail and the next attack again generates enough adrenaline to trigger flail.

Pyro maniac · Dec 01, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

Maybe it would help if I tell you folks what I've been using:

I open w/ enraging charge, having an attack skill queued up. As soon as I hit, I get 4 strikes of adrenaline, which is enough to trigger flail. If I need to move, I hit enraging charge again, and since it's another stance, it cancels out flail and the next attack again generates enough adrenaline to trigger flail.

that works, and is probably the best you can use in PvE

Biostem · Dec 01, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Ok, thanks for your input. I'm still going to play around w/ things. Though probably a bad idea, I was thinking of making my secondary ranger, grab a pet, and see how rampage as one works out. Another idea I had was to take my paragon, make him a secondary warrior, and try that soldier's stance (I already have aggressive refrain).

Another question - has anyone tried a warrior/mesmer and used flurry w/ IW? Is it worth while or just a waste? Would that be better on a mesmer primary? Thanks.

Toutatis · Dec 01, 2007, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

has anyone tried a warrior/mesmer and used flurry w/ IW? Is it worth while or just a waste? Would that be better on a mesmer primary?

For IW (with or without Flurry) to be worthwhile, you would need to put some heavy investment into Illusion Magic. Personally, I feel that it's better on a mesmer primary as they can pump illusion higher than 12 with runes. Even then it's still a calculated risk, as the entire damage output is based on a single enchantment which could easily be stripped.

Biostem · Dec 01, 2007, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toutatis

For IW (with or without Flurry) to be worthwhile, you would need to put some heavy investment into Illusion Magic. Personally, I feel that it's better on a mesmer primary as they can pump illusion higher than 12 with runes. Even then it's still a calculated risk, as the entire damage output is based on a single enchantment which could easily be stripped.

You bring up a good point. I pretty much play PvE exclusively - have you found enchantment removal to be all the prominent? My Dervish didn't seem to encounter that many, and she relied heavily on enchantments.

Thanks again.

Crom The Pale · Dec 01, 2007, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Many people hate IW wars. They do not put out as much dmg as a straight war, however there is a few advantages.

Since IW ignores blocking and being blinded its good in areas where you wont land a hit otherwise. You can run IW + Signet of Stamina for a huge hp boost that wont end untill IW stops and you land a normal blow.

Other than that its just not an effective means of dealing dmg, but it can be fun to play around with.

Biostem · Dec 01, 2007, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Many people hate IW wars. They do not put out as much dmg as a straight war, however there is a few advantages.

Since IW ignores blocking and being blinded its good in areas where you wont land a hit otherwise. You can run IW + Signet of Stamina for a huge hp boost that wont end untill IW stops and you land a normal blow.

Other than that its just not an effective means of dealing dmg, but it can be fun to play around with.

Hmm.. also good to know. See, I've had the Wa/Mo I'm currently playing sort of on mothballs since June of '05, so she has been out of practice. I had already beat prophecies w/ her, but only just recently brought her to Nightfall & Factions. Having all 3 campaigns really opens things up for me, and there are some really cool skills to be had...

Toutatis · Dec 01, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

have you found enchantment removal to be all the prominent?

It really depends on the area. Some areas have no enchantment removal to worry about, while other areas are loaded with mobs who will strip at every opportunity they get. It helps if you study the enemies you'll be facing before you decide on which build would be the safest and/or most effective.

Biostem · Dec 01, 2007, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toutatis

It really depends on the area. Some areas have no enchantment removal to worry about, while other areas are loaded with mobs who will strip at every opportunity they get. It helps if you study the enemies you'll be facing before you decide on which build would be the safest and/or most effective.

Always good advice.

Do you find certain damage type mods to be more or less useful (fire, ice, elec, earth)? Also, can you suggest an elite? I've been toying around w/ warrior's endurance for regaining energy, or that one that causes bleeding and cripples the enemy. Thanks.

Toutatis · Dec 01, 2007, 05:23 AM // 05:23

That's about the limit of ideas that my competence would allow when discussing warriors... My experience with the W primary is somewhat limited (mine is still using Tiger Stance as his IAS and Quivering Blade in the elite slot which shows how far I've taken him).

One thing I can say about Warrior's Edurance though is this: It's a stance, and most (if not all) of the warrior's IAS skills are also stances. I guess it would depend on whether you needed the energy more than the IAS. You might consider Counterattack as a form of energy management though - at Strength 10 and higher it pays for itself, and the condition on it is easy to meet.

Savio · Dec 01, 2007, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Warrior's Endurance is bad :/

blue.rellik · Dec 01, 2007, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Flail for PvE
Frenzy for PvP

A11Eur0 · Dec 01, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Flail with rush, enraging charge, dragon slash and For Great Justice!.

Insta spike with repeated Dragon Slashes...if you have a kd or snare (hamstring? I hate the 10 energy though) you can drop a soft target before his monk knows what's happening.

iridescentfyre · Dec 01, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

In PvE, Flail is by far the best IAS skill.

In PvP, Flail is not appropriate and thus an intelligently-used Frenzy is the best choice.

Warrior's Endurance is a bad skill because its a waste of an elite slot and you don't really need that much energy return on a warrior--warriors don't have worthwhile things to apply that much energy management to.. Power Attack/Pure Strike spam is not worthwhile.

IW is bad on a warrior because not only does it waste your elite slot, it also requires an investment in an otherwise-useless secondary attribute. In the end, it still only puts out 34 damage per hit. For comparison, Dragon Slash is base damage +38 at 14 Swordsmanship and can be used every hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Flail with rush, enraging charge, dragon slash and For Great Justice!.

Insta spike with repeated Dragon Slashes...if you have a kd or snare (hamstring? I hate the 10 energy though) you can drop a soft target before his monk knows what's happening.

Dragon Slash isn't a spike. Its a lot of damage, but its definitely not a spike. If you're talking about PvE, "his monk" is not a concern, and in PvP, their monk would most definitely know what's happening... all they need to do is cast Guardian and you're shut down. This is why swords see limited use in PvP.

blue.rellik · Dec 02, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Flail is used on hammer warriors

Biostem · Dec 02, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Ok. Well, I've gotten pretty comfortable using enraging charge and flail. From what I've read, I need to get dragon slash. Not only does it look like a solid attack, but the adrenaline gain is great.

Just as a general comment, (and I know I've asked a lot of you folks), do you find axes to be better than swords? I have a few axe elites unlocked, and was previously using one until I got this cool gold sword which I'm using now...

Thank again.